Return to www.chicagosky.net.

  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
Chicago Sky 2012 (Forum Locked Forum Locked)
 Chicago Sky TalkSky Team TalkChicago Sky 2012
Message Icon Topic: Advisors for Sky Ownership? Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 7 Next >>
Author Message
fanbetty
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 21Sep2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 463
Quote fanbetty Replybullet Posted: 25Sep2012 at 4:52pm
Evidence?  Ok, let's see each item on my rant:
1) Personnel decisions: tell me which of these were good
-Trading Perkins for Snow and then letting Snow go for nothing
-Trading our #2 pickthis year for LWH and then releasing her (the #2 pick of the 2nd round this year was Tiffany Hayes on Atl)
-Trading #2 overall pick this year for Cash and LeCoe (I think we could have missed the playoffs without them)
-Signing Riley to 3 year contract, signing Ticha (maybe I missed the game they contributed for us)
2) The offense- dump into Sylvia and let her fight 2 or 3 players for the ball or try to feed her over the top of all the defenders.  Tell me how this needs explaining.  And this strategy let to the 600+ turnovers.  I did check the Basketball Reference.com site and confirmed that only 10 other teams in the entire WNBA history have had 600 or more turnovers.  We had 14 games with 20 or more turnovers which we lost 11 (Source- wnba.com boxscores)
3) 1st team in WNBA history to not make the playoffs in 7 straight years.  Again, the source is basketball-reference.com/wnba.  2 other teams missed the playoffs 6 straight years and both won WNBA titles in the 7th.  They are Phoenix in 2007 and Minnesota in 2011.
4) Player mismanagement is my opinion, but I didn't see anyone rushing to her defense of how she used Swords, Shay, Petro, LeCoe and others.  We all agree that Prince and Fowles should have been out there as much as possible, but even her use of them was mysterious at times.
5) WNBA coaches in Europe- according to the biographies on WNBA.com, only Pokey Chatman is a head coach in Europe.  In fact none of the other head coaches in the league have ever worked there as a coach.  Other than Christie Sides, there is only 1 other league coach who works in Europe and that is Marianne Stanley (formerly of Washington) who has 3 years as an assistant coach in Russia in her resume.
 
Anything else?
IP IP Logged
T_Woodie
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25Mar2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5777
Quote T_Woodie Replybullet Posted: 25Sep2012 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by fanbetty

Evidence?  Ok, let's see each item on my rant:
1) Personnel decisions: tell me which of these were good

-Trading Perkins for Snow and then letting Snow go for nothing

-Trading our #2 pickthis year for LWH and then releasing her (the #2 pick of the 2nd round this year was Tiffany Hayes on Atl)

-Trading #2 overall pick this year for Cash and LeCoe (I think we could have missed the playoffs without them)

-Signing Riley to 3 year contract, signing Ticha (maybe I missed the game they contributed for us)

2) The offense- dump into Sylvia and let her fight 2 or 3 players for the ball or try to feed her over the top of all the defenders.  Tell me how this needs explaining.  And this strategy let to the 600+ turnovers.  I did check the Basketball Reference.com site and confirmed that only 10 other teams in the entire WNBA history have had 600 or more turnovers.  We had 14 games with 20 or more turnovers which we lost 11 (Source- wnba.com boxscores)

3) 1st team in WNBA history to not make the playoffs in 7 straight years.  Again, the source is basketball-reference.com/wnba.  2 other teams missed the playoffs 6 straight years and both won WNBA titles in the 7th.  They are Phoenix in 2007 and Minnesota in 2011.

4) Player mismanagement is my opinion, but I didn't see anyone rushing to her defense of how she used Swords, Shay, Petro, LeCoe and others.  We all agree that Prince and Fowles should have been out there as much as possible, but even her use of them was mysterious at times.

5) WNBA coaches in Europe- according to the biographies on WNBA.com, only Pokey Chatman is a head coach in Europe.  In fact none of the other head coaches in the league have ever worked there as a coach.  Other than Christie Sides, there is only 1 other league coach who works in Europe and that is Marianne Stanley (formerly of Washington) who has 3 years as an assistant coach in Russia in her resume.

 

Anything else?

You don't have enough details to say these things fanbetty. There are other things involved that you have no knowledge of like:

*Managing the Salary cap.

*Snow signed a 1 year contract...she was a free agent.

*What are the *options*in Riley's contract? You don't know.

*How many coaches trade a player and the players doesn't grade out to what they thought? Wisdom Hilton suffered most of the season from back injury. No coach can know if a player will suffer injury. If you remember correctly that was a crisis move because Christon went down...how soon we forget.

*I think really Swin was worth that pick alone given the weak draft and Seattle was unloading cap themselves...so I think Swin alone was worth it.

I kinda think as George Benson sings...hindsight is 20-20 vision.

Your rant is biased to the fact you want Pokey gone. You really don't have enough information on anything you say above.

I rest my case.



Edited by T_Woodie - 25Sep2012 at 5:14pm
The "BIG 5" Sloot, Quigley, DeShields, Ndour, and Dolson
IP IP Logged
mavcarter
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13Feb2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 399
Quote mavcarter Replybullet Posted: 25Sep2012 at 6:14pm
I don't want Pokey gone, but a lot of what fanbetty is saying isn't too far off.
IP IP Logged
brit479
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 07May2010
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1351
Quote brit479 Replybullet Posted: 25Sep2012 at 6:28pm
Fanbetty is right on with her post. She knows her stuff when it comes to basketball. I don't care if Pokey stay or go. I just want a winning team. The organization need to remember they waited to long to fire Key. I agree with what Swish said if Pokey stays she need to hire help...offensive coach, and someone to help out with GM. I notice the Sky have been quiet since the season ended. But we will probably be getting a Adam Fox and Michael Alter interview in the coming weeks about this lost season.

Edited by brit479 - 25Sep2012 at 6:28pm
*Sloot*Piph*Cash*EDD*Syl*

*Stay healthy and make some noise. GO SKY!!

IP IP Logged
Jimmmy2
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 16Jul2011
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 904
Quote Jimmmy2 Replybullet Posted: 26Sep2012 at 9:07am
     Fan, point 2 in your post is wrong to blame Pokey. The TOs were Sloots fault, the positioning failure was Syls injury's fault. Sloots fixed and Syl's replaced.   Car, still needs improving. I noticed a bad habit of her waiting for passes up top. After a few seconds turning to do some screening and reposition for another pass check. Meanwhile the passer was going to pass to her right when she turns her back. She needs to be able to watch for a pass and look at who she is going to screen.
In the long run.It's better to have a bad outcome doing things right.Than a good one doing things wrong.
IP IP Logged
fanbetty
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 21Sep2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 463
Quote fanbetty Replybullet Posted: 26Sep2012 at 2:43pm
T Woodie- we are going to have to agree to disagree, but in my opinion, she is a dreadful coach and a worse GM.  You remind me of all those Bulls fans who wanted to keep Vinny Del Negro around because the team made the playoffs twice with him and wanted to give him a chance to learn (sound familiar) and other excuses.  The fact was (and is) he sucked as a coach, had a horrible offensive scheme and succeeded by the talent of the team which far exceeded his coaching talent- they won in spite of him.  Bringing in a quality coach has certainly proved that this is a good strategy (at least for the Bulls).
 
Jimmy- again, I'm not sure what you are talking about, but it is entertaining.  Since you like numbers, here are some (and in case someone wants to know my proof, it comes from WNBA.com &  boxscores on that site):
In games that Sylvia played, the Sky averaged 19.6 TO per game
In games that Syl sat out, the Sky averaged 13.4 TO per game
 
Now this is my opinion and based on my observations, but the Sky improvement in TO was related to the change in offense.  With Syl, they threw into a crowd and tried leading her over the top of the defenders (usually not very successful).  With Syl gone, it was a motion offense with perimeter (less dangerous passes).
 
Interestingly enough- our record with Syl was 9-15 (.375 winning percentage).  Without Syl, it was 5-5 (.500 winning percentage).  My premise is that it was the different offense that won, not missing Syl.  If Pokey had played a similar offense with Syl, we would have been more effective.
 
As for Sloot, she had 3.3 TO per game with Syl and 3.3 TO per game without.  Same numbers to start and to end the season.  She finished 3rd in the league in TO per game and 5th in the league in TO per 40 minutes.  She doesn't seem fixed to me on this particular part of her game.
IP IP Logged
T_Woodie
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25Mar2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5777
Quote T_Woodie Replybullet Posted: 26Sep2012 at 3:49pm
Fanbetty it has nothing to do with agreeing to disagree.

Let's grow up for a minute here:

*I *think* just about everyone here felt just as Pokey did...that Swin and Lecoe were a good move. I wasn't so sure about Lecoe, but I was for Swin.

Let's look at your comments about it:
 
Originally posted by fanbetty


I love the acquisition. 


The rest of what you said is here: http://www.chicagoskytalk.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=2250&PN=4

Now...since it didn't work out...it's Pokey's fault??? Your hypocrisy looms large. You need to own up and not act as if you knew it because...you didn't!

What it is to me is the selfishness of fans. Because this team had things they had no control of like EP going down and then later Syl going down, as well as Ticha being injured early and often...now "it's Pokey's fault". Though many were thinking just like Pokey...that she made good moves.

I don't buy it!!! If not for injuries this team makes it's first playoff...I'm sure of that.

You..are a fair whether fan...PERIOD!!!

*How does Minny make it without Moore and Augustus?

*How does The Sun make it without Charles and Lawson?

*How does Indy make it without Catching and Douglas?

*How does The Sparks make it without Parker & Toliver?

Don't be offended...but I call it like I see it...you're the typical selfish fan. Since the Sky doesn't win...rather than see facts...you "look for excuses".

As for Vinny...I never wanted him to be the Bulls coach, but I'll admit he did a pretty good job. Now he's with the Clippers and he does pretty good there too. He has to grow...but he's competent.

Pokey is a good young coach...you are a "fair weather fan".

Pokey admits her shortcomings and I'd like to see what she does to address them.

Unlike you fanbetty...since it didn't work out...you look to cast blame.

Shame on you...Thumbs%20Down 

Edited by T_Woodie - 26Sep2012 at 3:54pm
The "BIG 5" Sloot, Quigley, DeShields, Ndour, and Dolson
IP IP Logged
Jimmmy2
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 16Jul2011
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 904
Quote Jimmmy2 Replybullet Posted: 26Sep2012 at 4:09pm
   Fan, I have to admit I was wrong about Sloot. No matter how I time viewed or particular game picked out. Sloot is doing a lot better at everything but not TOs. She really committed to reducing them then backslide as she emphasized getting things done more. As regards the offensive scheme are you mad at Pokey for only fixing it after Syl got hurt. And would like to punish her with a firing. As you said right now the scheme is fixed so replacing would not change that.     I disagree with all the premise that Pokey fixed it suddenly when Syl was out. You had to reverse the self evident fact that Syl WAS the variable that changed. " My premise is that it was the different offense that won, not missing Syl." restating your premise does not SUPPORT your premise.   The Olympic diving coach years back was asked to speak to China about the secret of Greg Louganis. When the coach got to China he told them that if he knew the secret wouldn't he have more than one diver on the team with that level of skill.     Pokey would of fixed things much sooner if she knew how. Syl IS replaced.

Edited by Jimmmy2 - 27Sep2012 at 6:20am
In the long run.It's better to have a bad outcome doing things right.Than a good one doing things wrong.
IP IP Logged
fanbetty
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 21Sep2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 463
Quote fanbetty Replybullet Posted: 26Sep2012 at 7:28pm
One of the worst lines in the business work phrase book is:
"It's my fault" or "It's on me" or "I'll take responsibility for that" because people really mean "I may have screwed up, but what are you going to do about it.   The blame has to go somewhere.  You make the decisions, you get the credit if they are good and the blame if they go bad.  It doesn't matter if you or I or anyone else liked the decision, it turned out to be the wrong one along with all the other bad decisions this year. 
 
In my book, you make bad decisions, you take the fall.  You make good decisions you get the reward.  It's time for Pokey to take the fall since she made the decisions.  Washington certainly made their coach/GM take responsibility for her poor decisions.  Michael Alter should do the same for this franchise.
IP IP Logged
T_Woodie
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25Mar2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5777
Quote T_Woodie Replybullet Posted: 27Sep2012 at 10:10am
Originally posted by fanbetty

One of the worst lines in the business work phrase book is:
"It's my fault" or "It's on me" or "I'll take responsibility for that" because people really mean "I may have screwed up, but what are you going to do about it.   The blame has to go somewhere.  You make the decisions, you get the credit if they are good and the blame if they go bad.  It doesn't matter if you or I or anyone else liked the decision, it turned out to be the wrong one along with all the other bad decisions this year. 
 
In my book, you make bad decisions, you take the fall.  You make good decisions you get the reward.  It's time for Pokey to take the fall since she made the decisions.  Washington certainly made their coach/GM take responsibility for her poor decisions.  Michael Alter should do the same for this franchise.

No fanbetty...you're copping out period!.

You liked the moves Pokey made like everyone else...and since the Sky didn't make the playoffs you now want to scrap a coach because moves she made didn't work out, even though you yourself thought they were good moves too?

Now Pokey is incompetent???

JUST WOW!!!! Shocked


Edited by T_Woodie - 27Sep2012 at 12:07pm
The "BIG 5" Sloot, Quigley, DeShields, Ndour, and Dolson
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 7 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.

Nology Interactive - Web Design - Hosting - IT Services